recording provided by Conny Larsson, Sweden 
Date: 08-15-04

From: Editors exbaba.com

In a phone call from around 2000, David Bailey - author of 'The Findings' tells Tomas Wiehe of Sweden of his experiences and the reasons for leaving Sai Baba. The recording has some background noise, but it is generally good. Click here to hear the text of the transcript below in two MP3 files firstly  Part One- and then Part Two



with Thomas Wiehe, who is a Swedish ex-Sai devotee.

Part One Part Two

Thomas Wiehe of Sweden begins the phone call, telling David Bailey about the meditation groups he was running for the Sai Organisation in Sweden, and says that he has one in August and has great doubt whether to have it or not. Thomas asks about websites and David Bailey tells him of the sceptics website with many articles by B. Premanand, then continues as follows:-

David Bailey: Premanand was very close to Swami before Terry Gallagher. Terry Gallagher was an Australian who spent five, six, seven years - and a (whole) day - with Swami. He was closer than I was with Swami. Then when he left, through having found out the truth of what is going on, I somehow became so close to Swami that for three years I was blind to what was going on... because I had been told what everybody else had been told. And then after our marriage we became even closer and became part of what it termed the inner circle. And when we saw for ourselves what was going on and realised what other people who had been close also had experienced and why they had left, then when we did our world tour last year, it was disasterous... with so many things that we found.

We went back at Christmas to discover that everything that we had found was totally true; as soon as we got back to England, we had the fraud squad from Scotland Yard, the British Government's Foreign Office and the Charity Commissioners waiting for us with major investigations, with proven fraud in some cases

Thomas Wiehe: What is that?

David Bailey: Fraud is mishandling of money - and the other thing which we had discovered was this homosexual activity. You know, to start off with we believed (it) was only Swami - shall we say - raising the kundalini within the student. This is what we were told, but then when we realised that it was not... and it was definitely not just Swami - well I have to be open and honest - playing with the students... but asking the student to actually make sexual acts on Swami, including oral sex. It was just ridiculous. And then the students at the college turned to me for help, because this has been going on for years, it is why the assassination attempts occurred... because the students were absolutely sick of him making them do things they didn't want to do. I am grown up in my attitudes and realistic to realise that around the world many things happen between consenting adults, but when you are in a position of power as headmaster or teacher or guru or whatever you like... to make your students do things they do not wish to do is not acceptable, and also in England - and I believe it is true in Sweden - it is illegal. And if Swami were in England he would be put in prison for twenty years.. .Now that is my problem because at one of England's top preparatory schools for children from five to thirteen years old, the Royal family sent their children to this school... and I was suddenly made redundant. I lost my job and they asked me to continue with my job part time only to teach in the classroom - no work in the evenings... even we had performed one musical and they said you may not attend the rehearsals, you can only attend the performance

Thomas Wiehe: This questions your connections with Baba?

David Bailey: This I did not understand...

Thomas Wiehe: But now you...?

David Bailey: But now I do. Because he is listed as a paedophile and around the world, I was seen - with Faye - to be going round speaking for Swami. From the police, from the authorities from many countries... they saw David and Faye - and other people too - going to speak for Swami. As a result families would go out to Swami... sons, the young men would be sexually approached and come back, there is even one person in England who has committed suicide and we have stopped another one, we pray, from doing so. But we were seen as agents... that we would be very charming, very nice, persuade people to go - because of my involvement with the college boys so closely they thought that I was just a provider of his sex toys. That has now ruined my career in England because I now have a record of being connected with him. Then of course there is the money side of things - as we spoke, people of course wanted to give money. When they investigated the truth of the hospital, the truth of the water project, the truth of where the money goes - and I have personally investigated first hand - that the water project is not finished, there are many villages without water - not even connected. The hospital is very badly run and it is just not what we are told at all. Now people do not want to hear this, but this is the truth. This is why Faye and I have moved away. He knows that he will be caught out. 


The rings are all bought from Hyderabad and locally in the village, the vibuthi he carries between his fingers in tablets... I've seen it, he dropped a tablet in front of me. It is all an illusion, it is all a hoax, it is all one big trick, and so many of us innocent people have been hoodwinked. Faye and I, with our books, we have removed them from sale wherever we can, because we cannot allow anybody else to go and get involved because of us. We also respect that many people do good, but it is now time in my view for people to do good because of good, not because of his name. It is a terrible situation - Magnus was in tears yesterday. When I started to find this out eighteen months ago I had nobody to share this with and I certainly cried myself to sleep for several weeks. When I spoke to the very close people - I have some very good friends there who know exactly what's going on - when you get to the inner circle it is a business, that's all they're interested in really, but people like Phyllis Krystal, people like Mike Hollander, who have been there for many years, they just turn round and they say 'If you consider he is God, he can do anything. He can have fraud, sex, drugs... anything. If you do not consider he is God, then of course you have a problem, because of the laws of your land, your morality, your own upbringing and your own standards. And they say this is your problem to sort out, you must decide that he is God. I said this is crazy, the one that creates this beautiful world that we live in, does not come to this earth and do these ridiculous things. There is NO record in Prashanthi of him doing any healing at all. Any healing that has happened within people has been an internal personal thing, but there are very, very few serious records of this anyway. The problem with the incidents that have been reported before is that either the young men have been so threatened that they have said 'I'm sorry, I made a mistake'

Thomas Wiehe: Who has threatened them?

David Bailey: Indulal Shah, for example, the organisation, the coordinators. The pressure from people who have been 'besotted', people who are so sincere devotees of Sai Baba? They will not accept that he could do anything like this, and they have pressurised the young men to say 'Oh I'm sorry... I made this up.'

(This phone conversation transcript is continued: (Click here for continuation)